A brief comparison of the classic 911 and e30 platforms

"Cynical" (cynicalasspootalker) 02/20/2014 at 23:17 • Filed to: None

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In some circles, the question of what can truly be considered ultimate all-round car comes down to two choices. The classic 911 and the e30. I am here to give a brief comparison of both.

The e30 was the third iteration down from BMW's successful 2002/1600 platform. First setting foot on American shores in 1984, the e30 came with a choice of 2 standard power plants. Either the m10b18, a 1.8L, fuel injected four cylinder engine in the 318i, or the m20b27, a 2.7L, fuel injected straight six found in the 325e. Neither of these engines were great powerhouses,the m10 managed to make about 110 hp, but they worked well with the cars they were in. The m10's block was derived from BMW's formula 1 efforts, and the 325e made 180 lb.ft. of torque, despite only being able to rev to a diesel-like 4250 rpm. Later, the wonderful m20b25 engines became available in the 325i. This was a high revving 2.5L, fuel injected straight six, making about 170 hp, but was down on torque from the m20b27, with only about 159 lb.ft. on tap. To drive a 325i is to have a smile plastered to your face. Everything from the feel of the steering, to the sound of the engine,and even stepping out and looking at the quirky, yet handsome styling. Everything about them just felt right.

Then, the e30 m3 was born, and with it the s14. A four cylinder engine that revved to the stratosphere while making grown adults weep as they watched the flare-fendered rally homologation tear down dirt roads and twisty tarmac. Despite being a child of the 80's, the e30 was not self destructive or highly complex. It worked every day, and would take the beatings of 3rd and 4th owners with only minor complaints from the cooling system. It was just complicated enough to make it a reliable workhorse compared to most of the vacuum hose ridden malaise of the time, but just simple enough that almost anyone could figure out how to work on it. The e30 could do anything you asked it to. It even came in wagon trim, albeit not to the U.S.

The Porsche 911 began its life in 1963 and soldiered on, well into the 1980s, although with a plethora of model designations and engine changes. The contemporary iteration of the 911 came in two main variants; the Carrera and the turbo, also known as the 930. The Carrera was blessed with a fuel injected version of Porsche's air-cooled flat-six, with a gargantuan 3.2L displacement. In the U.S. this translated to 207 horsepower. This car was manageable, but fun to drive, even every day. It was a joy to be in. Everything about it speaks to the driver. The sound of the flat-six was mechanical, not beautiful in all ways, but satisfying and instantly recognizable.

The 930 was a very different beast. Wider and wilder, with the unforgettable slant nose version (based on the 935 race car) being the least recognizable as a 911. A 3.3L, air cooled, turbocharged flat-six, making 300 horsepower made the 930 an absolute monster to drive. It is remembered as a vehicle to be tamed, more than driven. The nature of the power delivery, coupled with the rear-engine mounting, made for an challenging, but rewarding endeavor for those with the talent and patience to master driving it. For the less fortunate, it served as their grave. Driving the 930 goes a bit like this; foot goes down, nothing happens for a while, then all of a sudden you are in the next state. Being surprised by the power delivery mid-corner meant instant power slides with little hope of catching them once the heavy rear-end started to come around. It was fast. Very fast.

The e30 may not be as storied, powerful, or prestigeous, as the 911, but it hits all the right keys in perfect harmony. The 911 is a legend, beyond reproach. But the 911 requires time. It requires patience. It requires money. Effort. Skill. It requires a lot, is what I'm saying.The e30 is by comparison a simple hand shovel, for planting the seeds of the hoontree. And from that seed can grow any type of hoon you like.Drag racing hoons. Beater car driving hoons. Road racing hoons. Autocrossing hoons. Drifting hoons. Hoons that race from light to light. Hoons that can drive only sideways. Hoons that swap. Hoons that boost. Hoons that meticulously shine their wheels and tires as if a car show might break out at any second. The 911 does not breed such things, at least not at my pay grade. The 911 will get you there, fast. But it is like tending a rose bush; prickly, a bit delicate in some ways, but robust and strong in others, beautiful to observe, but maybe a bit less useful practically. The e30 stands as a tree, firm in its roots,and bearing fruit through its life. If there was one car left on Earth, I pray God its name be e30.

Aaron Brown > Cynical 02/20/2014 at 23:23

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Where'd ya find that first pic?

Cynical > Aaron Brown 02/20/2014 at 23:24

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All pictures are courtesy of Google image search, except the last animated gif, which is a creation of mine.

Niquemarshall > Cynical 02/20/2014 at 23:25

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Nice write up.

Aaron Brown > Cynical 02/20/2014 at 23:25

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Ah, was just curious because I know those two cars heh. I think the actually JBH's and that's the Classic Car Club's E30 and 74 911.

Cynical > Niquemarshall 02/20/2014 at 23:29

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Thanks!

offroadkarter > Aaron Brown 02/20/2014 at 23:30

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I was going to say, that has to be the CCC cars!

Aaron Brown > offroadkarter 02/20/2014 at 23:31

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Good eye.

Manuél Ferrari > Cynical 02/20/2014 at 23:32

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Awesome, awesome, awesome post.

I think about this topic all the time. My first car was an '84 318i that was handed down to me. And when I had it my old man would also let me drive his '82 911SC from time to time (with him in it of course).

I remember thinking back then how much more advanced the bimmer felt. The Porsche was of course quicker and more fun because of that. But the bimmer was so much easier to drive quickly in the turns. At 16 years old in the 90s with no Oppo to turn to I knew nothing about trailing throttle oversteer or how to master a 911.

If it wasn't for how expensive the E30 M3 is now I would definitely take it over a Carrera from the same year. And I'm not saying this cause I don't like Porsche - far from it. I love Porsches. I just think that for a brief time period the M3 had the edge over the C2.

Cynical > Manuél Ferrari 02/20/2014 at 23:34

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Thanks for the feedback! I actually currently own an '84 318i. Its acceleration is glacial, but I love driving it.

offroadkarter > Aaron Brown 02/20/2014 at 23:36

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this reminds me, I need to bug JBH for the gopro shot of my car passing the M3 in CT

Manuél Ferrari > Cynical 02/20/2014 at 23:43

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You're welcome!

That's awesome you have the same car I did! Those things last forever! I wish I still had mine. We gave it to my uncle when I bought an '81 633CSi (to get moar power for cheap). He drove it for a while. That M10 refuses to die. No wonder it could handle 1000 HP in F1 in turbo charged format :)

The 318i is what made me love cars that can handle well. Since it accelerates slow you don't want to slow down once you get up to speed. Which makes you learn to take corners at max speed. And the gearbox is sublime. The steering is great too. Very good all around car.

Aaron Brown > offroadkarter 02/20/2014 at 23:44

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I'll ask him about it for you.

Cynical > Manuél Ferrari 02/20/2014 at 23:48

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Seriously, this car has the best shifting transmission of any e30 I've driven. And I definitely agree about the whole driving a slow car fast dynamic. It makes you work for it and is very satisfying because of that. 633CSi, I probably would've done it too. I've never owned a 6er, but I want to.

Manuél Ferrari > Cynical 02/20/2014 at 23:54

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When my Dad would occasionally drive the E30 again he would be jealous of the clutch and shifting action! Shifting the 911SC is the opposite of easy. The clutch fights you and selecting the gear you're aiming for is tough. The classic 911 definitely takes practice!

The 633CSi was fun but I made a mistake by buying a beater. Since I couldn't afford a nice one I should have just kept the E30. I did test drive one low-mileage 635CSi that was black on black. Oh man it was sooooo nice. Had I been able to afford it I probably still would have it today. And it would probably be worth at least what I paid for it even after putting miles on it.

JasonStern911 > Cynical 02/20/2014 at 23:59

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I have to disagree.

The beauty of the 911 is in its evolution. Decades of tweaks to the suspension, displacement, aspiration, brakes, etc. It's great right out of the box, but it's a tuner's dream as the Singer 911s have proven. The body style is classic to a point it is the first thing people think of when someone mentions the brand's name. And the original 911 made no sacrifices. Rear engine hard to control? Back seats too small to be practical? Air cooled engine too loud? Heating/air conditioning marginal at best? Can't drive a stick and need an automatic transmission? Not the original 911's problem.

The E30 is more like two separate beasts. You have the M3, with its elusiveness and endless internet praise. Then you have a majority of E30s, which are, well, luxurious econoboxes. Now, that sounds harsh, but that's what the base and even more exotic 325ix models were. And, in part, that's why taking the E30 and putting it up against a car with decades of racing heritage that lacks all of the compromises the E30 had to make is outright ignorant from a "better driver's car" standpoint.

But the every day daily driver nature of the E30 is what makes them such great cars in contemporary time. The desirable 911s have significantly appreciated to a point that they are unattainable by most. However, $5k will get you a sorted out, daily driver capable E30. $5k will get you a rusted out 911 chassis with a blown motor. So from that standpoint, the E30 brings a tunable enthusiast car to the masses. And the value of that has to be respected.

If there was only one car left on Earth, the 911 easily wins. The constant evolution shows whatever future race that discovers these cars the capability of man to evolve. It shows than man was a race that lived on the edge instead of taking the easy way out. The E30, on the other hand, shows that a majority of the people prefer toned down family coupes/sedans (99% of E30s) to track/race oriented vehicles (E30).

But that discrepancy really isn't a knock on the E30. Like the Miata, it serves a different purpose. For what the E30 is, it killed its contemporaries like the Mercedes W124, AUDI 80, Ford Cosworth, etc. But stating that the E30 is a better car than the 911 given their dissimilarities because of personal preferences has no more weight than someone stating that the Ford F150 is a better vehicle than the E30 due to total vehicle sales and towing capacity.

Cynical > JasonStern911 02/21/2014 at 00:06

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I agree that the 911 is a more pure sports car. I don't think anyone would say that the e30 is better than a 911 at things like being ridiculously fast or dynamic on road feel. However, I did stipulate this comparison being for the best all rounder. And in terms of my last car in the world stance, that is assuming a Mad Max style post-apocalypse dystopian furture, and I would rather work on an e30 than a 911 any day of the week.

JasonStern911 > Cynical 02/21/2014 at 00:44

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I did stipulate this comparison being for the best all rounder

then why lump the original 911 into the comparison? why not compare a Honda Odyssey? the Odyssey is cheaper to own, maintain, more reliable, better parts availability, better seating, better handling in snow for non-AWD versions...

the E30 is a great daily driver, and the 911 is a great weekend/track car. if I was more mechanically inclined and had more free time, that would be one of my more realistic ideal garages. but I guess I'm just not getting the point of saying an aged, sport enthusiast car is an inferior daily driver than a car intended to be a daily driver. if you want to make a comparison like that, compare the M3 (and only the M3) version to the base model 996 (which despite the increase in power, better handling, etc. is more of a daily driver than enthusiast car). that comparison would have more merit...

that said, I want to reiterate that I still think they are great as complementary pieces instead of rivals.

Cynical > JasonStern911 02/21/2014 at 06:52

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For a certain sector of the automotive enthusiast community, this is a very valid question. I get what you are saying, but I don't agree. From my experience working at a shop that serviced, and raced, a number of these vehicles, this discussion holds water. Does everyone agree with me? No, but the question is a valid one.

Cynical > JasonStern911 02/21/2014 at 07:39

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I do greatly appreciate your input and perspective, though.

JasonStern911 > Cynical 02/21/2014 at 16:24

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Agree to disagree regarding owning a 911 in a Max Max post-apocalyptic world. :)

Capt. Janeway's Imaginary Cat > Cynical 02/24/2014 at 21:29

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I had an E36 M3 back in the days and what made it so impressive was that it was just as capable if not better than the 300ZX and MR2 Turbo I had. I think your comparison is perfect in the sense that Porsche started with a sports car and BMW started with a sports sedan and they both focused on a common goal: performance and refinement. And that's why this comparison is worth looking into.